Comments on: Why Second Life is already second-best for education /2010/10/06/why-second-life-is-already-second-best-for-education/ Coverage of news, issues and events occurring in virtual worlds or those who create those worlds Fri, 31 Dec 2010 13:25:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Week 10 – Journal 1 Second Life « Leutmaf's Blog /2010/10/06/why-second-life-is-already-second-best-for-education/comment-page-1/#comment-208031 Week 10 – Journal 1 Second Life « Leutmaf's Blog Tue, 02 Nov 2010 05:17:03 +0000 /?p=2854#comment-208031 [...] Why Second Life is already second-best for education /2010/10/06/why-second-life-is-already-second-best-for-education/ [...] [...] Why Second Life is already second-best for education /2010/10/06/why-second-life-is-already-second-best-for-education/ [...]

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By: Kickaha Wolfenhaut /2010/10/06/why-second-life-is-already-second-best-for-education/comment-page-1/#comment-208013 Kickaha Wolfenhaut Mon, 25 Oct 2010 13:21:00 +0000 /?p=2854#comment-208013 Lowell Cremorne writes: "Ease of use: ...It’s something that has improved and will continue to improve." Good grief, I hope you're not referring to the abysmal Viewer 2 ! Lowell Cremorne writes: “Ease of use: …It’s something that has improved and will continue to improve.”

Good grief, I hope you’re not referring to the abysmal Viewer 2 !

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By: Lowell Cremorne /2010/10/06/why-second-life-is-already-second-best-for-education/comment-page-1/#comment-208006 Lowell Cremorne Thu, 21 Oct 2010 04:13:00 +0000 /?p=2854#comment-208006 It's a great point Steorling. My take would be that each platform has its strengths and weaknesses, but that in the aspects I discussed, there's a platform that's better in some respects. Right now, the Unity 3D approach shows a lot of promise from a simulation viewpoint. It’s a great point Steorling. My take would be that each platform has its strengths and weaknesses, but that in the aspects I discussed, there’s a platform that’s better in some respects. Right now, the Unity 3D approach shows a lot of promise from a simulation viewpoint.

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By: Steorling /2010/10/06/why-second-life-is-already-second-best-for-education/comment-page-1/#comment-208005 Steorling Wed, 20 Oct 2010 15:31:00 +0000 /?p=2854#comment-208005 Second Best to what, is my question. Sure, perhaps all those things are true. Perhaps they always have been true. The question is, what does it better? I've attempted assimilation on several of the "open sim" solutions mentioned and they were far below acceptable. I beta tested Blue Mars....not impressed as yet....and it has some pretty big negatives in terms of user created content and control. Philosophically, it's not going to be comparable to Second Life as a platform in terms of user created content...it's not engineered to be that kind of space. So, if Second Life is second best, would somebody please tell me what's in first place, because I'm tired of looking. Second Best to what, is my question. Sure, perhaps all those things are true. Perhaps they always have been true. The question is, what does it better? I’ve attempted assimilation on several of the “open sim” solutions mentioned and they were far below acceptable. I beta tested Blue Mars….not impressed as yet….and it has some pretty big negatives in terms of user created content and control. Philosophically, it’s not going to be comparable to Second Life as a platform in terms of user created content…it’s not engineered to be that kind of space. So, if Second Life is second best, would somebody please tell me what’s in first place, because I’m tired of looking.

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By: Prokofy /2010/10/06/why-second-life-is-already-second-best-for-education/comment-page-1/#comment-208003 Prokofy Tue, 19 Oct 2010 16:22:00 +0000 /?p=2854#comment-208003 You're a very good example of what I'm talking about. o Refusal to embrace intellectual property and commerce -- brow-beating people into creating content for Creative Commons -- which doesn't pay people for their work o insularity, finding the big wide metaverse "antithetical" to your educational mission. Imagine that! The world is in the way. Maybe because if more of us came to see what you were doing, we'd never send our kids to be brainwashed by your sects. You’re a very good example of what I’m talking about.

o Refusal to embrace intellectual property and commerce — brow-beating people into creating content for Creative Commons — which doesn’t pay people for their work

o insularity, finding the big wide metaverse “antithetical” to your educational mission. Imagine that! The world is in the way. Maybe because if more of us came to see what you were doing, we’d never send our kids to be brainwashed by your sects.

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By: Prokofy /2010/10/06/why-second-life-is-already-second-best-for-education/comment-page-1/#comment-208002 Prokofy Tue, 19 Oct 2010 16:17:00 +0000 /?p=2854#comment-208002 Once again, educators seizing the bully pulpit to purvey falsehoods. What we're *actually* seeing with this latest "punk edu" controversy is a minority of sectarians -- I call them technocommunists -- whining once again that the server code isn't opensourced, that all content, even content they didn't create, isn't copyable and portable to other grids, and that commerce is even integrated at all. This core of complainers turn out to be total frauds as I've found with just some basic journalistic investigations. They barely make any content themselves, and what they do make are just simple textured boxes (and that's ok -- that's why it's not true that you need to hire "expensive" builders).The loudest complainers have no expensive custom builds at all!!! AJ Brooks and Ignatius O. in SL have only *freebies* -- all-perm builds like those made by Lordfly for Clever Zebra as a loss leader. Such few prefabs they have are modestly priced and they could easily ask the makers to license a transfer. Oh, they might not like that idea, as the new open sims have no intellectual property rights and no permissions system -- they are collectivists who discourage commerce.Education in America is a business -- a big business. And it is also integrated to free enterprise and intellectual property -- *and that's ok*. But it's not a state of affairs that suits this tiny minority of whiners, mostly from second-rate podunk colleges.Most educators in SL have not succeeded in engaging students. And the reason for that is because they don't free them to build and manage the land on demand -- they lock them out of land groups and deny them permissions out of fear that they will grief or make inappropriate content. They don't grant students their IP rights -- they either pay them little and grab their work as "work for hire," or expect them to "volunteer" work that is grabbed by the campus as their IP. It's a shocking lesson to be teaching kids. Instead of encouraging kids to create and build and sell, the Marxist-style professors badger kids into being good little collectivists and giving everything away -- and then turn around and become hard-nosed capitalists as they grab their IP for their own value to go on getting grants from the state or private foundations. Most edu campuses as a result are dull, stultifying experiences with predictable Soviet-style stadiums and boxy modern architecture from free prefabs -- and if there is a sandbox, it's on auto return. You don't have to be a skilled 3-d content creator to create in SL -- the existence of prefabs and modules everywhere, often for free or very low cost, means anyone can enjoy the thrill of modifying their space and expressing themselves. Most educators haven't tapped into 1/100th of the capacity of SL -- they haven't innovated or contributed by making compelling locations or inventions. Instead, they greedily suck down all the freebies they can hoard on their sims -- freebies that were intended as loss leaders for commerce, not intended to wind up in the edu cul-de-sac.Open Sim isn't a place that has a wide variety of people from all walks of life doing all kinds of creative things. It's a sterile zones of ideologues trying to keep each other company while the sims crash. There isn't the serendipity and wealth of content that you have in the more real-life like SL. That's because utopian ideology reigns in Open Sim, and one that isn't conducive to life -- for long.Scene-by-scene tutorials and guids are all over the place. Not only are there the tutorials like Oxbridge and many other similar newbie stations, there are builds such as I've commissioned in Ross and Iris where people can learn second-tier skills in an immersive interactive environment. I have no particular technical skills and again, use the work of others I pay for because I respect their IP and their need to make a living, in order to make a creative space.As for Rezzable, Greenies and the Black Swan -- ugh! This cynical exploiter RightAsRain Rimbaud invented a device to easily copy everything on a sim, regardless of whether he had permissions for it, and cynically copied to other grids with it. Why would you celebrate such outright cynical theft? Only after a huge outcry including from some of his underpaid contract builders did he revise his device ostensibly to copy only items for which one had permissions in the system. But the damage was done. Rezzable sims, like other such ideologically-based "Free" projects in SL are a testimonial to just how failed Chris Anderson's ideology in fact is when really tested and monitored. These people didn't sell content or admission or rent to vendors. Instead, they thought that by making everything free, paying a few high end builders to create content, that they'd get old companies like perfume manufacturers to pay them huge amounts to advertise. It's really a cynical idea, because it treats people like mere cannon fodder to advertising schemes. And it failed. Educators got a whopping FIFTY PERCENT discount off sims and maintenance fees. Those who could settle for only 4096 meters of land got land FOR FREE. And the output from this pampered and insular bunch as been very little. Linden Lab did the right thing reversing the grand giveaway to this unproductive and whining bunch. Once again, educators seizing the bully pulpit to purvey falsehoods. What we’re *actually* seeing with this latest “punk edu” controversy is a minority of sectarians — I call them technocommunists — whining once again that the server code isn’t opensourced, that all content, even content they didn’t create, isn’t copyable and portable to other grids, and that commerce is even integrated at all. This core of complainers turn out to be total frauds as I’ve found with just some basic journalistic investigations. They barely make any content themselves, and what they do make are just simple textured boxes (and that’s ok — that’s why it’s not true that you need to hire “expensive” builders).The loudest complainers have no expensive custom builds at all!!! AJ Brooks and Ignatius O. in SL have only *freebies* — all-perm builds like those made by Lordfly for Clever Zebra as a loss leader. Such few prefabs they have are modestly priced and they could easily ask the makers to license a transfer. Oh, they might not like that idea, as the new open sims have no intellectual property rights and no permissions system — they are collectivists who discourage commerce.Education in America is a business — a big business. And it is also integrated to free enterprise and intellectual property — *and that’s ok*. But it’s not a state of affairs that suits this tiny minority of whiners, mostly from second-rate podunk colleges.Most educators in SL have not succeeded in engaging students. And the reason for that is because they don’t free them to build and manage the land on demand — they lock them out of land groups and deny them permissions out of fear that they will grief or make inappropriate content. They don’t grant students their IP rights — they either pay them little and grab their work as “work for hire,” or expect them to “volunteer” work that is grabbed by the campus as their IP. It’s a shocking lesson to be teaching kids. Instead of encouraging kids to create and build and sell, the Marxist-style professors badger kids into being good little collectivists and giving everything away — and then turn around and become hard-nosed capitalists as they grab their IP for their own value to go on getting grants from the state or private foundations.

Most edu campuses as a result are dull, stultifying experiences with predictable Soviet-style stadiums and boxy modern architecture from free prefabs — and if there is a sandbox, it’s on auto return. You don’t have to be a skilled 3-d content creator to create in SL — the existence of prefabs and modules everywhere, often for free or very low cost, means anyone can enjoy the thrill of modifying their space and expressing themselves. Most educators haven’t tapped into 1/100th of the capacity of SL — they haven’t innovated or contributed by making compelling locations or inventions. Instead, they greedily suck down all the freebies they can hoard on their sims — freebies that were intended as loss leaders for commerce, not intended to wind up in the edu cul-de-sac.Open Sim isn’t a place that has a wide variety of people from all walks of life doing all kinds of creative things. It’s a sterile zones of ideologues trying to keep each other company while the sims crash. There isn’t the serendipity and wealth of content that you have in the more real-life like SL. That’s because utopian ideology reigns in Open Sim, and one that isn’t conducive to life — for long.Scene-by-scene tutorials and guids are all over the place. Not only are there the tutorials like Oxbridge and many other similar newbie stations, there are builds such as I’ve commissioned in Ross and Iris where people can learn second-tier skills in an immersive interactive environment. I have no particular technical skills and again, use the work of others I pay for because I respect their IP and their need to make a living, in order to make a creative space.As for Rezzable, Greenies and the Black Swan — ugh! This cynical exploiter RightAsRain Rimbaud invented a device to easily copy everything on a sim, regardless of whether he had permissions for it, and cynically copied to other grids with it. Why would you celebrate such outright cynical theft? Only after a huge outcry including from some of his underpaid contract builders did he revise his device ostensibly to copy only items for which one had permissions in the system. But the damage was done. Rezzable sims, like other such ideologically-based “Free” projects in SL are a testimonial to just how failed Chris Anderson’s ideology in fact is when really tested and monitored. These people didn’t sell content or admission or rent to vendors. Instead, they thought that by making everything free, paying a few high end builders to create content, that they’d get old companies like perfume manufacturers to pay them huge amounts to advertise. It’s really a cynical idea, because it treats people like mere cannon fodder to advertising schemes. And it failed. Educators got a whopping FIFTY PERCENT discount off sims and maintenance fees. Those who could settle for only 4096 meters of land got land FOR FREE. And the output from this pampered and insular bunch as been very little. Linden Lab did the right thing reversing the grand giveaway to this unproductive and whining bunch.

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By: Greg More /2010/10/06/why-second-life-is-already-second-best-for-education/comment-page-1/#comment-207993 Greg More Mon, 11 Oct 2010 13:15:00 +0000 /?p=2854#comment-207993 I have used Second Life since 2007 to educate architecture and design students, and actually a whole range of platforms (Unity3D, Unreal, Garage Games) over the years. It's a shame that this change has occurred, because even though SL hasn't been flavour of the month for a while, it still works incredibly well as context to immerse participants in a shared design space. Alas the persistent design space we have, and which I was hoping we could have percolating for say 20 years, now will probably be simply switched off at the start of 2011. I have used Second Life since 2007 to educate architecture and design students, and actually a whole range of platforms (Unity3D, Unreal, Garage Games) over the years. It’s a shame that this change has occurred, because even though SL hasn’t been flavour of the month for a while, it still works incredibly well as context to immerse participants in a shared design space. Alas the persistent design space we have, and which I was hoping we could have percolating for say 20 years, now will probably be simply switched off at the start of 2011.

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By: Ener Hax /2010/10/06/why-second-life-is-already-second-best-for-education/comment-page-1/#comment-207992 Ener Hax Mon, 11 Oct 2010 12:59:00 +0000 /?p=2854#comment-207992 "I want to make an important point: Second Life deserves to continue to grow" - why? SL is a paid service, they will grow if they are serving customer needs. we aren't talking about some charity here, why do they "deserve" to grow? lol, i don't know why this time that got to me! as i commented earlier, it has been a joy to be in OpenSim and greater creativity has resulted from the freedom inherent with having your own grid =) “I want to make an important point: Second Life deserves to continue to grow” – why?

SL is a paid service, they will grow if they are serving customer needs. we aren’t talking about some charity here, why do they “deserve” to grow?

lol, i don’t know why this time that got to me!

as i commented earlier, it has been a joy to be in OpenSim and greater creativity has resulted from the freedom inherent with having your own grid =)

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By: Suzanne Aurilio /2010/10/06/why-second-life-is-already-second-best-for-education/comment-page-1/#comment-207990 Suzanne Aurilio Sun, 10 Oct 2010 23:47:00 +0000 /?p=2854#comment-207990 I've been conservative with investing in space in SL since we started to in 2007, so the capacity we've built could be moved to another platform with little loss. I'd started looking at other platforms 2008 anyway, for the reasons you mentioned you're not investing in SL for your next project. We'll likely wait out our contract, (we just renewed) and see what develops. Suzanne Aurilio, San Diego State University I’ve been conservative with investing in space in SL since we started to in 2007, so the capacity we’ve built could be moved to another platform with little loss. I’d started looking at other platforms 2008 anyway, for the reasons you mentioned you’re not investing in SL for your next project. We’ll likely wait out our contract, (we just renewed) and see what develops.

Suzanne Aurilio,
San Diego State University

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By: Sparax88 /2010/10/06/why-second-life-is-already-second-best-for-education/comment-page-1/#comment-207983 Sparax88 Thu, 07 Oct 2010 15:17:00 +0000 /?p=2854#comment-207983 It's interesting how much the internet has changed education. It has changed the way we learn. I wonder how far it will go? Maybe there will be no need for institutions in the future...just a computer? It’s interesting how much the internet has changed education. It has changed the way we learn. I wonder how far it will go? Maybe there will be no need for institutions in the future…just a computer?

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By: Anonymous /2010/10/06/why-second-life-is-already-second-best-for-education/comment-page-1/#comment-207982 Anonymous Thu, 07 Oct 2010 12:00:00 +0000 /?p=2854#comment-207982 We are closing shop. Our immersive literary simulation will move to a private grid hosted by Reaction Grid. It's for all of the reasons you cited, plus one: We don't need a big metaverse to accomplish what we wish with classes. In fact, it's antithetical in some ways. For this build, we want isolation from other users except those who are invited to create accounts or who use premade ones. That is sad in a sense, because our 2D Web content has always been issued under Creative Commons licensing and we want others to stop by, casually, to use it. We are closing shop. Our immersive literary simulation will move to a private grid hosted by Reaction Grid. It’s for all of the reasons you cited, plus one:

We don’t need a big metaverse to accomplish what we wish with classes. In fact, it’s antithetical in some ways. For this build, we want isolation from other users except those who are invited to create accounts or who use premade ones.

That is sad in a sense, because our 2D Web content has always been issued under Creative Commons licensing and we want others to stop by, casually, to use it.

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By: Ener Hax /2010/10/06/why-second-life-is-already-second-best-for-education/comment-page-1/#comment-207978 Ener Hax Thu, 07 Oct 2010 04:16:00 +0000 /?p=2854#comment-207978 very nicely written and balanced i moved away from SL (19 sims) and have been in OpenSim for 10 months or so and love it. educationally speaking, there is nothing that i need from Second Life. yes, that means i have to create most of the things i need, but then i love to learn =) very nicely written and balanced

i moved away from SL (19 sims) and have been in OpenSim for 10 months or so and love it. educationally speaking, there is nothing that i need from Second Life. yes, that means i have to create most of the things i need, but then i love to learn =)

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